Cross-training in multiple martial arts?

In response to one of my posts from 2007, Jiu-jitsu is Adaptable, an Anonymous commenter posted a couple of interesting and essay-length comments meditating on the merits and practicalities of many techniques vs few, and of different systems of martial arts, contrasting and comparing his experience of Jiu-jitsu with various other styles, including Krav Maga, Kali and Kick-boxing, and finishing up with the question:

What do you think about cross-training and how do you train defenses against kickboxers and armed attackers?

A few comments, broken across a few posts

Cross-training

Can be good, can be bad.  I appreciate that the hope is that by training in multiple arts you will be able to compensate for weaknesses in one art with the strength of the others, but I think that it is more complex than that.  Do you have time to train sufficiently in both arts to really get them? Do they blend harmoniously, or do they contain opposing principles and strategies?

I have students with a background in other martial arts come and train with me.  Inevitably they have a lot of patterns of movement drilled in that are difficult to modify; the level of difficulty varies with the individual and the kind of training that they have done.  Put their body in a particular position or situation and the drilled responses come out.  With those who empty their cups, and persist until they reach higher grades, there seems to be a process of unlearning, and then eventual re-integration, but it takes dedication and time.

Our organization primarily teaches Jiu-jitsu, classical judo and chinese boxing, with secondary arts including (but not limited to) ken-jitsu, aiki-jiu-jitsu, judo-do, and sambo.  So you could say we have built-in cross-training.

The head of our organization replaced his late master's preferred striking art -- shotokan karate -- with hung kuen chinese boxing, because he found that it made for a more consistent mix.  Even masters disagree on these things.

My rough advice to people who are aiming to be in martial arts for the long term is:

1. Seek the best instruction you can find that seems like a good fit for you.
2. If this includes integrated cross-training, great.
3. If not, defer cross-training until you have reached a significant level of expertise in a base art, and then seek cross-training in consultation with your instructor.

I just don't see people without expertise being able to mix and match disparate martial arts training particularly effectively.

Another point of caution is that standards of safety in training vary widely.

Japanese Jiu-Jitsu or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

In a comment on a previous post, John asked:

Which is better for self-defence, Japanese or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu?

These are both fine styles, and while I am trained in a Japanese style of Jiu-Jitsu I have taken a handful of classes in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, attended a seminar given by Carlos Gracie Junior, read the books, and followed the buzz.

In this comparison I say go for instructor and school over style.

Look for:

• Safety in training
• Technical excellence
• Skilled and well-behaved students
• Good training atmosphere
• An emphasis that fits your goals
• No lock-in contracts
  

An experienced martial arts practitioner is going to be in a better position to be discerning than a complete new-comer.

Some more on emphasis. Consider:

• Self-defense vs sport
• What are the main areas of technique that you are training?
• Balance between drills (kata) and free practice (randori)

These factors vary from style-to-style and instructor to instructor.

The broad technical areas in martial arts are striking techniques, throwing techniques, standing grappling techniques, groundwork techniques, and weapons.

Japanese Jiu-Jitsu

In the style of jiu-jitsu that I practice the main areas of emphasis are throwing, groundwork, and standing grappling (what we call restraint and control). Striking is there from the outset, but has less emphasis, and weapons enter later. I personally emphasise the self-defence and health aspects, with a little competition for fun and stress-testing, but not an aim in-itself. We do mainly drills, with a little free practice. If we are optimized for one thing, it's general self-defence.

Because there were many styles of Japanese Jiu-Jitsu -- not to mention the "reconstituted" styles -- technical emphasis and training methods will vary from school-to-school.

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

In Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu the main emphasis is going to be on groundwork, because that's their speciality. So if you opt for Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu you can expect to get good at ground-work comparatively quickly, while development in other areas seem to be taught later, if at all. Sports / self-defence seems to vary between instructors, but since they are into no-holds-barred, my primary concern would be about safety-in-training. Expect lots of free practice, but this may vary between instructors.

While it is true that a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu practitioner can bring a fight to the ground, in self-defense against multiple attackers you need to keep your feet to escape. You may need to look for a school that teaches a separate class in self-defense to complement the usual classes. The Royce and Charles Gracie book Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Self-defense Techniques shows what to look for (and the techniques shown look very familiar to anyone schooled in the Japanese techniques).

Conclusion

Instructor and school over brand. Talk to the instructor, ask around, see if you can try out a sample class. If you can find an "old-timer" who has been teaching for more than -- say -- 25 years, (s)he should have a good perspective on all these issues.

For those in Australia, especially Melbourne, come and have a look at what I and my instructors teach. After you have seen what we and our students can do, you will at least have a handy benchmark.

From Karate To Jiu-Jitsu

This post is written by one of my Jiu-Jitsu students, David Taylor. David has been learning Jiu-Jitsu with me since early 2006, after many years training in various Karate styles.

Switching to a new martial art can be a very rewarding and at the same time frustrating undertaking. The good bit is that you should have already learned valuable lessons in mind-set and culture. The difficult bit is unlearning incompatible principles.

Happily for David, he was prepared to "empty his cup", and is adapting well. Here are some of his reflections...

From Karate to Jiu-Jitsu
by David Taylor

I have just finished my first year of Jiu-Jitsu with Sensei Dan at Monash Caulfield (that's me in one of the early photo entries having my arm twisted and then reciprocating). In the previous 20 years I have trained in 4 styles of Karate and reached middle brown belt levels a couple of times. Sensei Dan thought that I might like to write about my experiences on this change-over in styles from the kicking and punching of Karate to the throwing and grappling of Jiu-Jitsu.

Before we go further: I do not claim to be an expert in either martial art. This article is intended to share some of my observations and experiences, not to be a definitive comparison on the relative merits of Jiu-Jitsu and Karate.

Why martial arts?

I started doing martial arts while attending University. This was just after the movie An Officer and a Gentlemen had come out with some good karate-style fight scenes in it. I wanted to take up an exercise that had other benefits besides keeping me fit. In our uncertain world no-one can guarantee that they will never be attacked. When that day comes it is no good breaking out into an aerobics routine!

Fortunately I have never had to use my Karate training for self-defence. Maybe the awareness that goes with doing a martial art has helped me from ever getting into a tight enough spot to resort to having to kick and punch. As one of my instructors used to say, "If you need to physically use your Karate you failed your awareness training".

Switching to Jiu-Jitsu

As I moved around Melbourne a couple of times I would join the nearest Karate club that had a good style I was familiar with. In my latest move I could not find a club that I was happy with. I remembered someone from one of my Karate clubs saying that they had tried Jiu-Jitsu and enjoyed the complementary skills of hand-to-hand grappling and throwing. At work there was a Jiu-Jitsu black-belt who lent me some of the Ultimate Fighting Championship videos where the Jiu-Jitsu guys blitzed their opponents with grapples and holds - more like the sort of messy fighting is likely to happen out on the street. When I found the Jiu-Jitsu club at Monash I thought that I would give it a go …

What is training in Jiu-Jitsu like?

Jiu-Jitsu is complex and intricate

How does it compare? Complicated right from the start! In Karate you start with a couple of basic kicks, punches and blocks and even if done half-right they sort of work. As a beginner you can sweat away doing the routines and get a great deal of satisfaction thinking that you are going well.

Immediate feedback from hands-on practice

With Jiu-Jitsu it is possible to throw someone twice your size, or restrain him with a painful lock, but in learning these techniques I found that they never ‘half-worked’. The immediate feedback on the effectiveness of your technique is much more confronting than in Karate training!

Lots and lots of techniques; infinite combinations and counters

The range of techniques — initially mainly throws and holds — is also much wider in Jiu-Jitsu. In Karate if an assailant punches at your head you respond with some sort of upper block, but in Jiu-Jitsu there seemed to be an almost infinite range of possible counters and counters-to-the-counter! Do I attempt a choke? A hold? A throw maybe? How do I choose?

Mentally challenging

As a beginner in Karate I used to come home physically exhausted until my fitness had built up. In Jiu-Jitsu I tend to come home mentally exhausted. The challenge is to learn the basics of a technique and get it to work well on a variety of partners, but that is only the beginning. How does each technique work in combination with other techniques? Where can it be used as a counter to an opponent’s attack? With practice the techniques become honed and more automatic, but the possibilities become more and more varied.

Works at a very close range, both standing and on the ground

Another big difference is preferred fighting range. In Karate training you strive to keep your opponent at something of a distance, and it is only at more advanced levels that you begin to work a variety of ranges. Through Jiu-Jitsu I have become comfortable operating at very close range, both standing and on the ground, even grappling from on top of or underneath an adversary.

Unlearning as well as learning

I had to unlearn a few things about how I weighted my stance, learning to be much more aware of my balance, and about varying the distancing from the opponent.

In conclusion

I enjoy the mental and physical workout of Jiu-Jitsu class. It is an on-going challenge to learn and combine all the different techniques, but as I do so I am improving my ability to defend myself, and widening my options in the event of an altercation. If the day comes when I have to actively defend myself maybe I will be able to restrain my attacker without throwing a single punch!